Tyrelopnik

"Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen" (distraxi) 01/17/2019 at 00:55 • Filed to: michelin PS4, toyobaru

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The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on the GT86 have finally gone to landfill heaven, to be replaced by Michelin PS4s. They review pretty well, I got a good deal on them, and Toyota and Subaru are both using them as OEM fit on the performance-spec versions of the 2019 Twins, which bodes well for how they’ll suit the car. I’ve only driven on them for about 20 miles of freeway so far, so the initial review is: they’re round and black. Both good features in a tyre, I feel.

I decided not to go with full-on trackday tyres in the end. Yes, they’re worth a second or two a lap, and depending on the tyre in question may handle a long session better, but ultimately I don’t care about laptimes at track days: I’m only racing me. And starting down the track day tyre route leads to a big pile of other things: It rains a lot here so I’d need separate street tyres and wheels; Extra side loads lead to oil starvation on boxers so I’d need a sump baffle; It’ll chew up shoulders unless it has a lot more than stock camber so I’d better put camber plates at the front and adjustable arms at the back. And pretty soon that’s 2 or 3 grand gone for minimal benefit in enjoyment - I really want to stay out of the “buying speed” rabbit hole.

Having said that, I’ve invested in some front camber bolts, which arrived today (too late to throw on before it went for tyres and get the alignment done at the same time, dangit). That’ll get me an extra degree or so of front camber for a few bucks - they’ve only got to make the tyres last a couple of track days longer and they’ve paid for themselves. The Primacies’ shoulders held up astonishingly well considering the car has basically zero camber as stock, but they’re as hard AF: I don’t expect the Michelins to be so durable. I think I’ll also invest a few bucks in oil temp and pressure gauges, just so I can keep an eye on whether I’m pushing it hard enough that some durability mods are needed.

Next step:decide whether to take it in for the valve spring recall. I’m still agonising over that one since it’s a big job to fix a small risk, and tearing down the engine potentially introduces bigger issues of it’s own. I need to find out what Toyota’s offering in the way of warrantee on the work.

Useful TIL from the tyre job: My local Aston/Bentley/ Lambo dealer has an inhouse tyre and alignment shop who are actually pretty cheap, and know their shit: they handle a bunch of customer racecars as well as the supercar stuff. I bought the Michelins through an online vendor who sent me to their nearest partner for for installation and it turned out to be these guys. It never would have occurred to me to try them otherwise.

Maxima Speed > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 01:22

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So they hold the corners well then? I’ve been interested in the twins for a while but was always curious about how well tires that narrow would  fair when really pushing the car hard.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 01:24

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Also any track day tire will put lots more stress on lots of parts. The big one be bushings. This article is good, written by a guy who has won auto-x overall several times , & a great track driver. 

http://thethrottlehouse.com/dont-get-rid-of-your-primacy-tires-wear-them-out/

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 01/17/2019 at 01:28

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Yes, I’ve seen that article before and I agree with every word. People diss the Primacies, but they’re actually a pretty decent tyre if you accept them for what they are.

There’s also a good (subtitled) interview somewhere on YouTube with the GT86’s Chief Engineer in which he explains the reasoning for the tyre choice. Worth a watch if you can find it. 

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 01:32

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I laugh when people who have never done track and/or auto-x dump the stock tires right away. That guy who wrote that has taught me lots too, & convinced me to not jump to the best tire. 

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Maxima Speed 01/17/2019 at 01:36

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I find them pretty good. The car doesn’t weigh that much or have a lot of power - it doesn’t need big rubber. Plus the Twins’ party trick is at-the-limit controllability not absolute numbers - a narrow tyre helps with that as it gives more progressive breakaway

The general consensus seems to be that unless you have forced induction or are after Autocross wins, there’s no much point in going up more than a size or so.

Arrivederci > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 07:57

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I really want to stay out of the “buying speed” rabbit hole.

Well you did a good job initially in buying a 86! :-D

LOL - I kid, but it’s easy to go down that rabbit hole. I still firmly believe that I ruined my old BRZ by trying to make it fast.

arl > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 09:09

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Nice! Always liked Michelin’s. Any other mods to your 86? I’m tempted to test drive one. But if I ended up liking it, I’d have to wait 3 more years for my son to go off to college before getting it (roomy Jetta vs. 2 seat sports car) , so maybe I shouldn’t get my hopes up.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 09:12

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I haven’t had these yet, but have lots of miles and some track time on PSSes - great tires, and the most impressive thing is their wet performance. Confidence inspiring! 

t0ast > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 10:30

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Good choice. My husband’s FR-S has RE71Rs for autocross and Continental ECSs for daily (and a little autocross) use. Even with (OEM) camber bolts added up front, the outside edges of the RE71Rs still disappear frighteningly quick. The ECS have worn a lot more evenly and still do great on cold and/or wet days. Those P4S being of the same category with similar or better review marks should fit the bill perfectly for improving performance while keeping things simple and inexpensive.

WRXforScience > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/17/2019 at 10:42

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Camber plates will help get you enough camber to keep your tires from wearing too unevenly (you’ll want at least 3 degrees of negative camber in the front and about 2 in the rear).

For the track and autox, I run a 17x9 wheel with 255/40-17 tires (RE71r’s for autox and Hankook RS4's for the track).

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > WRXforScience 01/17/2019 at 14:52

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That one’s going to be a case of simple math. Fitting proper c amber parts will cost me about 1.5 x a set of tyres. If I look to be chewing up tyres at a rate that’ll give me a decent payback on that, I’ll throw them in, otherwise I’ll live with tyre replacements. I’m trying to keep costs to a minimum with this - keeping spending under control during a period when I have other expensive shit goi ng on in my life was the whole point of moving from racing back to track days . It certainly wouldn’t have had an economic payback with the Primacies: we’ll see with the PS4s. As I said in our previous conversa t ion on the subject, I tend to be easy on tyres. Probably comes from habits learned during my first couple of seasons of racing way back when, which was in 2CVs: the world’s ultimate momentum car. I expect the techniques you unconsciously pick up to avoid scrubbing off 1/2 mph (which really matters in a 2CV) are equally helpful for preservi ng tyres in more conventional cars. T yre wear REALLY wasn’t an issue in the 2CV, I sold it after 2 seasons of endurance racing with the same rubber I bought it on!

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > arl 01/17/2019 at 14:57

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No, it’s pretty much stock. All I’ve done to it is plug the induction noise tube and add some extra soundproofing to make it more tolerable as a DD. O ne way they made them light is by leaving out all the sou ndproofing - there’s a hell of a lot of of road noi s e as stock.

They’re a hell of a lot of fun as long as you’re OK with not winning  the traffic light drags , but no, you couldn’t use one as a family car: my 6 year old nephew complains about how small the back seats are !

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/17/2019 at 15:02

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Supposedly PS4 is a step up from PSS, with PS4S being another step up again. Couldn’t get PS4S in my size though. Good wet performance will be nice - that’s one area where the stock tyres really suck, particularly once they aged. They did n’t aquaplane, but the general wet-road grip levels were getti ng dangerously low by the end. When you find yourself obeying the corner speed advisory signs on a wet day , it’s time for better rubber :-).